If we exclude elon and grock that is behind subscribtion now ? Is it really worse than others like Instagram etc I agree Fediverse initiative is superior but compare to commercial mass used social network is it worse ?
The discourse it generates is inherently combative and primed for culture war. Which is true of most social media but for twitter’s structure it’s also literally nothing else. It’s only the follower count, only the quote-reply, only the callout. No other intrinsic value.
If we consider upvote act like then it s no different then Lemmy in term of functionality. I dont feel the follower count has this intrensic value when u can ratio account 1000x time bigger when they said obvious BS. About inherently bad design I would mostly consider the character limit than boil down most conversation to limited expression and explanation
you aren’t the only one to have noticed this, it’s been a discussion quite a bit here. fediverse Instances are trying to avoid some of the hierarchical forces that the voting structure brings but it requires an active effort and reddit in the end could not resist. if we’re only contrasting this to twitter though, no this is leagues different.
the voting system has its problems but it’s a consensus machine. Not exactly a 1:1 equivalent of a follower count because we’re not always supposed to take in to account who is speaking. the ideal outcome is people voting responsibly and engaging with all comments as impartially as would be natural. fediverse helps by mixing up the default comment sort so your first opinion isn’t automatically forming from the already highest upvoted comment. if we were only giving votes based on who we follow, that wouldn’t have been an issue to address
Hell, I rarely notice who posts something (post or comment).
I’ve sometimes found myself upvoting someone in a thread that I disagree with earlier in the same thread.
that’s how it’s supposed to go ideally right? I admit I cheat a little and use Voyager tags to warn myself of when I might be talking to someone prone to pedantic debates but I usually try to ignore the username. I kind of hope people do the same for me too
i agree it s just ihave an, hard time to consider follower count as a power mechanism the way you describe it. Obviously it hold power but it s not as strong as you suggest imo. To me it it often look like as it was different conversation on different instance wich ppl holding different veiwpoint. And yes on a topic u can have someone with massive follower that hold a view that you deem false or bad but that doesnt mean they are right cause they have more like. At least that s how i feel. just to illustrate my point it would be like one post that hold libertarian view had a lot of upvote and somebody on another instance that s more socialist will answer it/repost it with more upvote. That doesnt necessarly reflect wich is right
Oh. Okay so the value of it is meta, like outside of the interaction visibly happening. You see two people beefing? Their follower counts are irrelevant to each other and most likely to anyone watching regarding who they think is correct. But the fact that the beef is seen is reliant on them having followers. The fact that they encountered each other relied on them having enough mutual followers to cross paths. And the beef will then let them capture a greater audience if they perform their postures adequately. The follower count is the currency in the background, mostly unseen but responsible for what you see in your feed
Maybe that seems similar to that discussion you’re referring to but the voting approach here isn’t dictating what you see, just kind of more the order you see it in.
Maybe that seems similar to that discussion you’re referring to but the voting approach here isn’t dictating what you see, just kind of more the order you see it in.
I see the point u making but it s kinda the same on twitter. now by default it s not the most liked that u will see first, it s the more likely to please u that u will see first ( u can revert it but the default is this way) I agree with you but it kinda sound like samll details and not really big difference.
But the fact that the beef is seen is reliant on them having followers.
Sometime yes sometime no. Like i said me having a little follower count was abble to ratio easilly account 1000x bigger than mine simply cause they said stupid shit and the point wasnt any of the follower count just what was said.
What s weird is the 2 system are different and with the fediverse and the power of open source anybody can comme with a better solution yet we dont have the one solution that is far better
That’s kind of what we’re observing, though. You would think that the difference in follower counts was negligible in that interaction but you dunking on another account above you is also part of the intended use, which is probably why you got to ratio them. If you hadn’t contributed a dunk-reply it probably wouldn’t have gotten the same kind of attention.
I think you should look a little closer here at what happens here at fedi. Our conversation for example is kind of how positive and pattern forming types of long discussions go. We’re not going to get retweeted and anybody else who might have been reading probably dropped off a few replies back. But we’re still talking and I can tell we’re actually reading each other’s replies so something is going correct. Not algorithm-explosive but definitely positive. Also your post is at positive score now with lots of thoughtful people in here.
Keep observing, things don’t go loud here but being viral obviously kind of sucked on twitter and got co-opted on reddit. So it’s obviously not all it’s hyped up to be. There’s an actual beefing comm to but that’s also low-key, the stakes are just the various comm operators banning each other from their own various little islands. It’s riveting stuff
i mean just cause i ask a question that s percieve against the value held by the majority i got dislike on stuff that isnt even link to the question or even is supported by the majority view here ( . Not complaining i dont care but i have a good idea of the majority position here on most subject. ) like why ppl should dowvote this https://lemmy.world/post/45838935/23315521 other than elon bad ?
To me at least what your describing isnt inherent to the tool but the usage you do with. I’m able to have a lot of nice conversation with ppl on twitter. Most of the time it only depends on the tone of my answer. Even yeah in multiple case i have answer that s just rage bait or stupid as possible but to me thoses only depend on my restrain and i dont often engage with them or it s for my divertissement.
We’re noy excluding Elon, because he pushes fashist shit.
all zuck property also did and way before his trump sucking cause they discover it create more engagement. U hadf a study on the matter. It s an interestiong read. Also that pov often doesnt acknowledge wich create the discourse, the user or the social network
The thing is…
You’re telling people that don’t use Twitter or Instagram that because Instagram is bad it means twitter is ok.
This would be a discussion you should have on Instagram, with people who do not use Twitter.
When you tell it to people here who (hopefully) use neither, the response will always be:
Just don’t use either.
no im not saying that cause one is bad the other is ok. Im rather saying wich critics are specifically toward twitter that dont apply to instagram
Cause we can make critics towards the two all days with all their fault and faillure
Everyone good left and the algorithm shows you a bunch of shit about how male loneliness is because women who don’t want to fuck op are allowed outside.
odly specific. Saw a lot of ragebait tweeet on gender issue like that and when we were abble to check where the account were based of it was always comming from third world place where they farm controversial takes for monetary gain. Glad i have none of those now. But yeah the monetization of a social platform and that a “creator” can earn revenue is such a fucking dumb idea. Hate it, and all those consequences or need to implemented in another way.
128 character limit meant it was always just going to be bumper sticker style communication, and little else.
Media loves it because it’s nothing but proverbial soundbites, completely decontextualized from any greater meaning.
People love it because people love shouting meaningless slogans and quotes and pretending they are the epitome of depth of meaning, belief, and argumentation.
It’s stupid because it was designed for stupid people.
Wow, you said it way better than I tried to.
Exactly.
yup. And fuck jack dorsey to never wanted to change it. At least now wer have the possibility … behind a subscription
If we exclude Musk, no, it’s not worse than Instagram. Musk is a pretty big deal tho. Now, the Zucc is pretty evil too, so anyway I’d say Instagram and Facebook are fair contenders for worst platform.
Personally I deleted Twitter as soon as the purchase by Elongated Muskrat was confirmed. I deleted Facebook and Instagram more recently (I hesitated longer because I was using it more to communicate with irl acquaintances). I still use WhatsApp, until I can get some people I need to keep in contact with to start using Signal or Telegram (I know I’m not gonna get them on Matrix or xmpp, not worth trying), but it’s also owned by the Zucc so it bothers me to keep using it.
Yeah, had the same issue quitting suck empire. Too much ppl use whatsapp
For me Mastodon is better than Twitter ever was, you can have real social interactions there, Twitter had too many people shouting for attention. I believe more by the day that smaller social media is better.
that s a good point, but wich also come with his downside. I mean on twitter i can have interraction with multiple ppl on some subject etc here it s less likely. To follow dev and other project i feel twitter work great
I’d say there’s an optimum number of people, you’re less likely to have meaningful interactions with a very high number of people. Mastodon is a lot closer to that optimum.
on some subject u can’t even have a conversation cause u dont enough users. I will never ask tech question on some subject here or for that matter on a lot of subject. Quick exemple if i need to know how to make proton run under wayland of origin games, even with and higher count that normal linux users here im not sure i will get an answer
It is bad because what happened with Elon could happen in the first place.
One person can control it and do what he likes with it, that’s bad
It was a shitshow long before Musk, and if you don’t see that…
so like every social platform except 5 ?
Yes
One person can control it and do what he likes with it, that’s bad
wich is sure wasnt the case before elon bought it. I guess u have the same issue with all non traded company then ? Steam ?
It’s always been a cesspool of short messages.
Cant really have meaningful message in 144 characters on a platform like that.
Plus it’s never been good at moderation.
Twitter peaked in 2011-2015 but it was never good. It was enjoyable because it was the last era before streaming and binge watching so there was still a split screen experience.
u mean like how ppl talk about the current event like got was at the time ? Yeah social network were really different before the 2015 and apparition of trump
No; I’m saying it was the opposite of being political focused like it is now; it peaked than because it was about second screen rather than a political circle jerk.Edit; misread the initial comment above and misinterpreted it.
that was what i was saying ? When i said got it was to reference game of throne that was wild in discussion on social media and a good exemple of how ppl use theml before political discussion became the norm. I agree with what you say, im just not quite understanding what you mean with second screen experience
Oh, sorry! I misunderstood your comment! I reread it and I understand now! :(
ah ah it happen. Take care
Like with all social media - it’s as bad as you make it.
I’ve never had much of an issue with Twitter’s recommendation algorithms. I find they do a pretty good job of showing me content I’m actually interested in. I did get an influx of political content during the owner switch, but either they fixed that on their end or it quickly figured out that I’m not interested. I’m getting none anymore. Like literally zero.
Lemmy would be equally unusable without heavy curating and content filters.
yeah sometime the algorithm has weird phase, but im happy with 1/3 being animals and cute stuff rather than the heavy clash right/left that it serve me a lot at one point
Twitter and Instagram are both bad and the people running them are an important part of that. Leadership is inherently a major part of how things are run and cannot be excluded.
true, even if i feel the suck empire is way more predatory
Which one is that?
instagram facebook whats app and certainly others that arent as well known
No one should use Twitter because of their algorithm alone. All the networks have unhealthy algorithms but Twitter is the most concerning considering Musk’s views and desire to push them on his users.
i mean what is the bad stuff it does ? only concrete evidence wich should be easy to provide since it’s the only one that made their recommendation algorithm open source
social media is bad in general. niche ones tend to be a bit better.
