Basically any company that you give money to is going to be led by arseholes. By definition. The only easy way is self hosting but that has its own difficulties. (And even then it’s still hosted by an arsehole)
Legitly the only way i would ever dare to even attempt self hosting email again is in 20 years when ai can do it entirely for me using the power of a single AA battery. No sane person self hosts email!
Email is pre-installed with YUNOhost (Debian-based server distro), in case anyone is interested. I have it installed on a cheap VPS and highly recommend it.
I have found if you choose providers that do things like run on 100% sustainable energy, you tend to find the places where leadership’s morals overtake their pockets. There are a few mail providers like this.
Do not run your own email server - highly recommend using your own domain though. Use a provider that lets you BYO your domain. Just make sure you get your MX records correct with your DNS provider, most email providers have documentation for this.
I started with cloud backup, it’s going reasonably. I’m using something called Jottacloud which so far has been solid for me and has a lot of different types of backups. Migrated some-odd 25000 photos, slowly getting through the rest of my stuff on google drive. Soon I’ll be below the 15g and switch to free it’ll be great then I can work on the rest of degoogling
It takes so much work and feels impossible the entire time especially while all the rest of life keeps happening. One step at a time I guess
I started with considerably more, down to the last 50g now, basically tying up loose ends and organizing all the “will organize later” as I move them to my new service
It’s very simple. Buy your domain for the next ten years for under $200. Then find an email provider where you can bring your own domain. Namecheap has always been good to me. Maybe also Hetzner in Germany?
Hetzner provides email with their cheapest webhosting package at €1.60 a month.
Namecheap is a little more pricey than I expected. You pay $89.28/2 years with a promo code - Renews for $143.76/2 years
You don’t need your own server to have the benefit the person you’re replying to is pointing out. If you control the domain, you can just point your DNS at another provider. For example, you can move your catch all inbox in Tuta to a mailbox.org plan with a catch all with a simple DNS update. Then you don’t need to change your email addresses anywhere.
Honestly if your using tuta tho its no different then proton. Both are crap for different reasons. One has crap privacy enforcement and the other is ran by a dick head.
Seriously it baffles me that anyone thinks a german company is remotely trust worthy for security. Its a fucking joke. Any country that has a deal with five eyes should just be assumed its compromised up front. If theres no out side enforcement of security then any promise of it from the inside is worthless.
E2E encryption doesn’t matter when you can’t trust the actual host in the first place.
E2E encryption doesn’t matter when you can’t trust the actual host in the first place.
Not referring to Tuta specifically, but isnt that the point of E2E encryption? That you have assurance even if you don’t trust the host? Unless they don’t demonstrate and publish what encryption mechanism they use of course.
Your not entirely wrong. It’s mostly the fact, that even with e2e your still relying on their word that they aren’t doing something shady or do something stupid. There’s no external force keeping them honest.
One is none two is one. Someone’s word is good but someone’s word, and another keeping them honest is better.
If your going to trust someone else it’s better some form of equality in the deal. As a consumer to a corp that’s basically impossible with out a legal enforcement layer.
I was using Tuta to mailbox as an example for this very reason: you can move your catch all inbox from Tuta tomailbox.org, since it also supports catch all. I’m trying to highlight the benefit that using a service with catch all functionality adds, which is flexibility and easy migration. It was not meant as a recommendation to use Tuta.
I didn’t say anything about “owning the name” other than just buying a domain in general (which you’d also need to do for something self hosted). I am simply saying that using providers that allow for catch all can give you privacy while also giving you the ability to jump ship.
My primary domain, for example, is not memorable, and it does not have ease of verbal transmission. It’s a string I randomly generated.
What is this endeavor? Control? Your own domain gives you control. Privacy? This is dependent on your provider, VPS, or otherwise. SMTP is generally blocked on residential IPs, so you’re going to have to trust and give up control and some level or privacy somewhere. Having a domain gives you the ability to self host if you desire, and if you don’t want to do that, then having a domain gives you the ability to easily change mail providers if needed, without the need to change hundreds of accounts.
Yeah, it’s taken me a similar time to migrate away from Gmail and I’m not keen to repeat the process. But if this is what Proton’s code quality control is going to be like going forward - employees forced to push improperly-tested code because of their unhinged CEO - I’m going to have to go through the whole process again. Sigh.
Same exact situation. In fact I’m not even fully done migrating away from Gmail although most of my stuff is on Proton now. sigh I guess I’m starting all over again soon.
$1/month for a custom domain. One last migration. And then moving platforms is much easier because you don’t need to change the email on every service.
Exact same situation with me. Going to start this weekend on self hosting email and then the transition process. I still have around 6 months left on my proton subscription, so enough time to move everything.
Its an explicitly worse alternative what are you on about. Its in a eyes country. Its literally an explicit step down on every level.
The moment tuta goes to shit there is nothing stepping them from going all the way. At least with proton the legal requirements of the country they are in means that no matter what stupid shit the dickhead at the top does. They are REQUIRED to adhere to a minimum standard.
Tuta has NO legal requirement to do that.
If you remotely care about privacy and enforcement of the standard of care around it. Tuta is like one of the stupidest places you can go.
I considered Germany a plus and they are one of the few options with total E2EE. I have not finished migrating yet, so what alternatives do you recommend?
I’ve been putting it off, because it took me more than a year to migrate away from Gmail. But this is hard to ignore. I’m tired, fam.
Basically any company that you give money to is going to be led by arseholes. By definition. The only easy way is self hosting but that has its own difficulties. (And even then it’s still hosted by an arsehole)
The biggest dickhead I know runs my server.
Could be worse, your servers could be ran by the same dipshit that runs mine! I swear nothing ever gets fixed on time!
Yes go self host email, I’ll wait
Oh, I’ve done it… Won’t do it again, but I have done it.
Legitly the only way i would ever dare to even attempt self hosting email again is in 20 years when ai can do it entirely for me using the power of a single AA battery. No sane person self hosts email!
Email is pre-installed with YUNOhost (Debian-based server distro), in case anyone is interested. I have it installed on a cheap VPS and highly recommend it.
I have found if you choose providers that do things like run on 100% sustainable energy, you tend to find the places where leadership’s morals overtake their pockets. There are a few mail providers like this.
Though, I learned my lesson and bought my own domain. So this pivot should be better.
I would love to chat this through with you. I have some domains but honestly, Iʻve been told so many times to not roll my own…
Do not run your own email server - highly recommend using your own domain though. Use a provider that lets you BYO your domain. Just make sure you get your MX records correct with your DNS provider, most email providers have documentation for this.
Likewise. I never plan to host my own email server. You can bring your own domain to Proton, at least.
ngl, I feel very burried by the effort to “de-google”. Like, Iʻm close, very close, and email is like the last thing to do (along with cloud backup).
I started with cloud backup, it’s going reasonably. I’m using something called Jottacloud which so far has been solid for me and has a lot of different types of backups. Migrated some-odd 25000 photos, slowly getting through the rest of my stuff on google drive. Soon I’ll be below the 15g and switch to free it’ll be great then I can work on the rest of degoogling
It takes so much work and feels impossible the entire time especially while all the rest of life keeps happening. One step at a time I guess
heh. cute.
I started with considerably more, down to the last 50g now, basically tying up loose ends and organizing all the “will organize later” as I move them to my new service
It’s very simple. Buy your domain for the next ten years for under $200. Then find an email provider where you can bring your own domain. Namecheap has always been good to me. Maybe also Hetzner in Germany?
Hetzner provides email with their cheapest webhosting package at €1.60 a month.
Namecheap is a little more pricey than I expected. You pay $89.28/2 years with a promo code - Renews for $143.76/2 years
I did my own email server for a while using Mail in a Box. It’s not hard, but it’s a hassle.
Now I just pay like $36 a year I think for Purelymail. Works great.
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You don’t need your own server to have the benefit the person you’re replying to is pointing out. If you control the domain, you can just point your DNS at another provider. For example, you can move your catch all inbox in Tuta to a mailbox.org plan with a catch all with a simple DNS update. Then you don’t need to change your email addresses anywhere.
Honestly if your using tuta tho its no different then proton. Both are crap for different reasons. One has crap privacy enforcement and the other is ran by a dick head.
Seriously it baffles me that anyone thinks a german company is remotely trust worthy for security. Its a fucking joke. Any country that has a deal with five eyes should just be assumed its compromised up front. If theres no out side enforcement of security then any promise of it from the inside is worthless.
E2E encryption doesn’t matter when you can’t trust the actual host in the first place.
Not referring to Tuta specifically, but isnt that the point of E2E encryption? That you have assurance even if you don’t trust the host? Unless they don’t demonstrate and publish what encryption mechanism they use of course.
Your not entirely wrong. It’s mostly the fact, that even with e2e your still relying on their word that they aren’t doing something shady or do something stupid. There’s no external force keeping them honest.
One is none two is one. Someone’s word is good but someone’s word, and another keeping them honest is better.
If your going to trust someone else it’s better some form of equality in the deal. As a consumer to a corp that’s basically impossible with out a legal enforcement layer.
I was using Tuta to mailbox as an example for this very reason: you can move your catch all inbox from Tuta to mailbox.org, since it also supports catch all. I’m trying to highlight the benefit that using a service with catch all functionality adds, which is flexibility and easy migration. It was not meant as a recommendation to use Tuta.
deleted by creator
I didn’t say anything about “owning the name” other than just buying a domain in general (which you’d also need to do for something self hosted). I am simply saying that using providers that allow for catch all can give you privacy while also giving you the ability to jump ship.
My primary domain, for example, is not memorable, and it does not have ease of verbal transmission. It’s a string I randomly generated.
What is this endeavor? Control? Your own domain gives you control. Privacy? This is dependent on your provider, VPS, or otherwise. SMTP is generally blocked on residential IPs, so you’re going to have to trust and give up control and some level or privacy somewhere. Having a domain gives you the ability to self host if you desire, and if you don’t want to do that, then having a domain gives you the ability to easily change mail providers if needed, without the need to change hundreds of accounts.
Yeah, it’s taken me a similar time to migrate away from Gmail and I’m not keen to repeat the process. But if this is what Proton’s code quality control is going to be like going forward - employees forced to push improperly-tested code because of their unhinged CEO - I’m going to have to go through the whole process again. Sigh.
I canceled my renewal but I’be been putting off finding a replacement because what you said. It’s exhausting.
Same exact situation. In fact I’m not even fully done migrating away from Gmail although most of my stuff is on Proton now. sigh I guess I’m starting all over again soon.
If I’d only put off de-googling a bit longer before I saw the news I could have skipped this hop. Oh well…
I’m eyeballing Tuta. Anyone have other recommendations?
$1/month for a custom domain. One last migration. And then moving platforms is much easier because you don’t need to change the email on every service.
That said, I still hear you.
Exact same situation with me. Going to start this weekend on self hosting email and then the transition process. I still have around 6 months left on my proton subscription, so enough time to move everything.
Tuta is a good alternative. I am in the process of migrating there right now.
Its an explicitly worse alternative what are you on about. Its in a eyes country. Its literally an explicit step down on every level.
The moment tuta goes to shit there is nothing stepping them from going all the way. At least with proton the legal requirements of the country they are in means that no matter what stupid shit the dickhead at the top does. They are REQUIRED to adhere to a minimum standard.
Tuta has NO legal requirement to do that.
If you remotely care about privacy and enforcement of the standard of care around it. Tuta is like one of the stupidest places you can go.
I considered Germany a plus and they are one of the few options with total E2EE. I have not finished migrating yet, so what alternatives do you recommend?