You can download the model, you do not have the source of the model.

It is similar to releasing a compiled software app as shareware vs publishing your source code.

We do have to ask if Malthusians are really people…

I’d donate my body to a Tanner. Cows can’t make this choice in a we can understand at least.

Jokes like this make me uncomfortable :( there’s legit eco fash positions like this. Invasive species rhetoric is bad applied to all species imho, because killing children for some sort of inherited sin seems unreasonable to me.

Spices. Very much spices. If I was limited to like 5 good ones I’d make do but I have a drawer with like 50 spices in it I use regularly and it’s my happy place.

Great pain, or an inability to find lasting reprieve from pain. The former is obvious, the latter can be something like the following:

Suppose by whatever circumstance you were you, but I fiddled with the way your brain works. Now when something small upsetting happens it lingers for long time, while something good is only experienced in a muted and brief fashion. Over time this twists your expectations, each day is like 90% feeling bad regardless of what happened and no matter what you tell yourself about the smallness of the bad thing the feeling remains.

You can be on holiday in a beautiful place but the thought that keeps coming to mind is that you aren’t as comfortable as in your own bed.

you stop sleeping right, you stop eating right because all food tastes equivalently meh. Your hobbies stop holding interest, successes stop feeling rewarding, but that pain from knowing you’re now boring and your friends pity and resent you? Fresh as ever.

You’re all through this thread being very sympathetic to vegans 🤨 I wish you luck following your heart as I think it is probably a kind one.

I dunno about normative claims, I was just saying I think a lot of ethical vegans (i.e. actual vegans) disagree with dumpster diving for non human meat because they see it similar to corpse desecration.

I’m personally more sympathetic to the idea that bodies are just materials once someone is done with them but I know that this is a fringe view and it deeply upsets some people to consider the bodies of the dead disturbed in any way. At the same time I think there are perverse incentives there to be careful of and that normalising continued use of animal products may bleed over into stuff like “cheat days” so I remain theoretically sympathetic.

Go check the modlog for the sort of shit that gets removed.

Infinite patience for “I’m curious about veganism, what motivates you?” or “I need X for my work, what vegan replacements are there” zero patience for “Lol vegans do you eat almonds you’re evil and dumb and go fuck yourself”.

Anyway I’m done with this. If you want to be convinced to be vegan you’ll find a way. If you just want to vent at me because someone was rude to you once and you have a bee in your bonnet then pay me for therapy :p I said I’m not interested and you replied again so I’m blocking so that we both disengage.

When you’re hanging out with your friends do you call over every racist you see in the hopes of convincing them that they can be better?

I strongly suspect that you too find places where you can disengage from horror and just exist without constantly defending your ethics and being dogpiled by a world that thinks you’re at best misguided and at worst a cultural traitor.

I mean look at this, I explained why these spaces seem hostile in an extremely neutral and non-judgemental way and immediately got people who do not share my values at all tell me how I’m doing my values wrong because I’m not catering to them 24/7. It’s exhausting.

Almost every single vegan was raised carnist. We don’t think we’re better, we wish people shocked us out of it earlier. If people are trying to convince you to go vegan it is because they hope that you might be better than them and change easily.

Not wanting to rehash the same arguments over and over again when if you were genuinely interested you could find thousands of crystalised dialogues on the internet going over them is part of the reason we ban shit like this on vtc.

vegan theory club is probably not what the OP wants. We are friendly and relaxed but we maintain this by a zero tolerance stance against anything except veganism.

So vegans can freely chat and talk in good faith and safe in the knowledge they won’t have to defend themselves or stumble on something miserable, but if you want a space shared with carnists then uh. Yeah maybe hexbear is better?

I mean as a grumpy vegan it basically seems like hanging out with someone who’s like “Look, we’re reducing bombing hospitals but we still want to take the land” or something. It is a fundamental disconnect which still frames other living beings as things you can extend or revoke consideration from depending on how much you want what you get from killing them.

Would fewer non human animals be exploited in a meatless Monday world? Yes. Would that world still be an unimaginably cruel and hideous Holocaust of suffering created for selfish reasons by beings who know better? Yes.

For example, animal products you find in a trash can are ethically vegan because consuming them does not contribute to, or create economic demand for animal abuse. First-hand leather products (which you do not eat) are absolutely not ethically vegan.

This is not a mainstream view in the same way it is not a mainstream view that eating human body you find from someone you did not kill is generally not considered ethical.

There are no destinations, only journeys. If you don’t find meaning in the path you’re walking you have three choices:

1. Change the path
2. Change yourself
3. Live a life you feel is meaningless

There is no right or wrong answer, only choices and your experience of making them.

He killed a mass murderer who murdered people who’s names he didn’t even know so rich people could get staggeringly rich.

Like ok, vigilante justice is a mixed bag. But if you’ve ever felt relief at any killing of a dangerous and violent person who victimises the vulnerable then the only reason you wouldn’t feel that now is because you think some words on a scroll change morality.

This person is obviously joking. They are almost certainly vegan

Yeah I fucking hate climate activists for the same reasons.

And human rights activists. Just let me buy my child labour diamonds in peace.

Glad to see another kindred spirit.

If you have any standards for behaviour in yourself then others will attack you for them. It is called do-gooder derrogation.

Eating and using animals is a cruel and selfish thing that almost all of us were raised to believe is necessary and nice. On some level everyone is aware that you can’t root for babe and also condem pigs to the gas chamber to die in screaming agony. That is painful, and many people respond to their own pain by lashing out at others.

No matter what you do there will be people who see it as an attack on their values and identity. Just be vegan in whatever way is comfortable to you.