apparently women specifically, which is kinda strange?
It’s specifically a report/recommendation of discussion points on the status of women (and not any kind of law btw), so talking about men would be out of scope.
It means that the EU will adopt the position that trans women should be recognized as women for an upcoming UN session, but it has no immediate effect on the legal status of trans people in Europe.
Trans men are men.
So they can just get over it.
Trans men will have their squishy feelings ignored like the rest of us men. It is the ultimate acceptance.
Paying attention to a trans man’s feelings would only give them feelings of gender dysphoria.
Oof. I see what you did there, and it hurt.
as already mentioned, it’s a policy statement on women in particular, so trans men aren’t relevant
“Men aren’t relevant”.
@whaleross@lemmy.world is right. It is the ultimate acceptance.
Welcome to the club, boys. Now you are on your own. Enjoy the privileged life!
I dunno about you, but as a man I really don’t see why I should be upset about not being in a document about women. Not every conversation has to be about me.
yeah, I’m feeling a bit clueless as to why this is feeling like such an injury to men …
unhelpful rant
and as an aside, do they not realize how much their feelings and desires as men are centered in society all the time, as a default?
the world has been built for them with rarely a thought to the contrary e.g.
- women haven’t been included in clinical trials, and women end up in the hospital at much higher rates than men because of drug complications as a result
- crash testing is mostly modeled on men and this results in greater rates of injuries and fatalities for women in car accidents
- phone sizes are sized based around male hands sizes making them too large for women
- the thermostats in public are set to temperatures more comfortable for men than women
- CPR dummies are only ever male and CPR training on female bodies is not common, resulting in increased deaths because people don’t feel comfortable performing CPR on women (either due to sexualization of women and modesty norms, or lack of confidence from not training on a female body).
- the number of bathroom stalls is based on men’s needs, resulting in long waiting lines to use the women’s room
Even the idea of women being in public has been a rather recent change in the West, only in the past couple centuries, and at first women always had to be kept in segregated spaces away from men - they had to ride in their own train cars, use their own library rooms, etc.
Women in the US only recently managed to own their own property, secure their own lines of credit, have their own bank accounts, etc. - the only thing like this applied to men has been slavery, but even that was applied to men and women, not men exclusively.
Advancement for women does not diminish men, and it’s so weird to see such sensitivity and fear from the elevation of women from sub-human status to closer-to-equal status.
That said, obviously patriarchy informs toxic gender norms that tell men that they shouldn’t express or have feelings, and those norms are reinforced by both men and women - but the problem is still the patriarchy, not the elevation of women or the movement for gender equality (i.e. feminism).
The issue with this is the men society is catering to are some sort of patriachial male ideal, which is very toxic and unhealthy for many real-world men. So no, society doesn’t really cater to the feelings of men.
Though that doesn’t really matter for the stuff you mentioned that’s just about male biology. And obviously this isn’t the place to bring up men in the first place.
At least from me, it was just a quip on the previous poster about trans men not being mentioned.
But then again, my impression is also that for a lot of trans men, this has been a shocking true experience.
So my quip has a sympathetic undertone for any trans men feeling excluded. Take it as acceptance, my guys! Hugs to you all!
1dalm has said the same now, so it seems you were the one to read it correctly in the first place. Such is the difficulty of communication by text!
“Hello, I’m here for the patriarchy. I was told I would have privileges. When can I expect my salary?”
“Yes, HR, I need to file a complaint. I’m told by all the women here that I’m supposed to be making more than them but that doesn’t actually seem to be the case. Will you please look into addressing that discrepancy?”
“Also, I’m ready for my lunch now, so please send a maid. I did not receive my coffee this morning as expected, which I was told would be a part of my male privilege. Do you even view me as a man?”
Why do you feel the need to derail the victories of certain people with your victim complex? Do you undermine feminist discussions by disingenuously asking why they don’t care about men?
I honestly thought they were mostly joking, the way I read this thread. Otherwise, I might have to take back my upvotes. Or I will now just take them back pre-emptively, just in case.
Of course we were joking. I kind of thought that would be obvious.
You are right. I should just deal with it.
hearing that men aren’t relevant is part of being a man, sorry for all my trans men brothers, that’s what being a man can be like sometimes
Trans men are men.
Yeah, but nobody gives too much of a shit about trans men. That’s how they know they pass.
But being serious, the dialog about this stuff is more or less entirely focused on trans women in spaces that are considered private or safe spaces for women. It’s almost all about cis women having to open women’s spaces to trans women, not really much about anything else. Even the most rabid TERFs usually frame things in those terms.
TERF UK is sadly quite accurate.
Which would be all well and good if they applied their standards equally. Keir Starmer literally gave an Enoch Powell-like “island of strangers” speech when announcing tougher immigration policies, and openly supported a court ruling which basically denied that trans women were women. The Conservative Party have also been playing a similar game of Simon Says with Nigel Farage and lurching much further to the right. Why aren’t Labour and the Tories banned?
I also think that singling out and pissing off a party that is (unfortunately) very likely to win the next general election is a sure-fire way to have your university defunded.
I doubt very much that Reform will win the next election. Class consciousness is rising significantly and Farage is very tied to ruling class interests, and he’s also too tightly connected to Trump, whose popularity is absolutely cratering, even among his MAGA fanbase.
My concern at this point is more that the Green party aren’t radical enough. My guess is that they’ll win, be kind of disappointing, then hand the reigns over to a party much further to the right than Reform.
Not trans men too?
It’s a document about women, not about trans people, so trans men just weren’t covered. The line about trans women is a single very short clause to make sure they’re included in all the other stuff
Of course not. Trans men are men not women :)
TERFs conveniently forget they exist cause they don’t fit their narrative
At least some terfs think transmen are sort of misguided superlesbians that have been brainwashed by patriarchy or some shit
That’s not any better, they still don’t recognise them as men either.
Oh yeah I was going for “I know some of them think like this” and not “hey at least they think this way”. That attitude could be even worse than just being ignored
It’s true, but the majority just conveniently “forget” they exist though
Do not abuse the report system for your personal beef. This is a warning.
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To me most trans men who have fully transitioned (after T) are pretty much indistinguishable from cis men. Their looks and voice sound just like a cis man. While for many trans women, some things still come off like their voice and body shape even after HRT and surgery compared to cis women.
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To a lot of transphobes, all trans people are men, even though they probably won’t state it this clearly. It’s the idea under e. g. the FIDE rulings.
first lesson to being a man is learning noone cares about you
(cries internally)
That’s very silly but I only asked because I have a couple of trans male friends
Trans men got recognised too, don’t worry, the recognition stated trans people, in general.
they never criticize or degrade trans men unlike trans women.
FUCK YEAH YUROPE #1 🇪🇺🇪🇺🇪🇺🇪🇺🇪🇺
What are the practical effects of this vote?
TO satiate the masses.
Meanwhile the US votes for …
decency warning
… the full recocknition of trans women.
