• trollercoaster@sh.itjust.works
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      1 day ago

      The ties were pretty clear with the Brexit propaganda campaign.

      As are the ties with other far right movements around the world.

      • Matty Roses@lemmy.today
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        1 day ago

        Russia’s more than happy to throw gas on the fire, for sure.

        But they didn’t start it. They’re taking advantage of the failures of capitalist neoliberalism in the West for their own advantage, but - and this is crucial - the existence of those failures is not something paranoia about Russia can address.

        In the US, you literally had people from the Democratic party discussing how BLM was a Russian front, because the Russians were happy to show how the US treated people. But Russia didn’t put those racist cops, Russia didn’t give them immunity - Russia didn’t make the US have the world’s largest prison population that’s overwhelmingly minority.

        You don’t want Brexit, don’t have wealth gaps and massive housing costs so people can be pushed to blame their shitty lives on Polish immigrants.

        • CovfefeKills@lemmy.world
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          1 day ago

          Specifically Russian leadership. Without a doubt. Try this: “Putin is bad for Russia”

          • Enkrod@feddit.org
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            1 day ago

            Man, sometimes I hate internet discourse, everything is hyperbole all the time and the only recognized positions are extremes.

            “maybe next time dont listen to russian propaganda.” - “You think […] Brexit only exists because of Russia?”
            “Russia is bad for this world” - “Are you suggesting Russia should be destroyed?”

            It’s so draining.

            • Matty Roses@lemmy.today
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              1 day ago

              Yeah, almost as draining as hearing idiots claim that everything is part of a huge Russian plot, so they don’t have to actually change their failing strategies.

              It’s been 10 years now and you chuckleheads are still doing it.

              • Enkrod@feddit.org
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                23 hours ago

                And again jumping on shit nobody here said or even insinuated.

                Someone just mentions that Brits should not have listened to Russian propaganda concerning Brexit and you immediately start this entire script fighting one strawman after another, somehow ending up in american politics for fucks sake.

                Nobody said it was only due to propaganda, nobody even said it was mainly due to propaganda, nobody said that Russia should be destroyed.

                Calm down mate, take a breather and stop fighting things you just imagine that other people are saying, because they’re not.

                  • Victor@lemmy.world
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                    20 hours ago

                    not your mate

                    You certainly won’t make any, or make anyone listen to you, by name calling and declaring people idiots like this. That’s not how you make people listen to you. “Hey, idiots/chuckleheads/etc!

                    🙄 You are only yelling into the void… Just a quick personality check for you, dear. It could be healthy to do one every now and then. ❤️👍

            • CovfefeKills@lemmy.world
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              1 day ago

              This ‘I’m so tired of internet discourse’ act is a classic move to shut down a conversation you’re losing. You’re conflating a critique of a toxic leadership with a call for destruction because you can’t actually defend Putin’s record. Russia’s military is an international embarrassment and its leadership is a global parasite; those aren’t ‘extreme positions,’ they’re the consensus of anyone not on the Kremlin’s payroll. You aren’t ‘drained’—you’re just out of arguments.

              • Enkrod@feddit.org
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                1 day ago

                Dude, I’m not the person you were responding to and I’m on your side in this?

                • CovfefeKills@lemmy.world
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                  1 day ago

                  My bad I am not being thoughtful about this, I am responding to russian shills with AI responses I truly am putting in the minimal amount of effort. Sorry!

          • Matty Roses@lemmy.today
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            1 day ago

            having listened to enough NAFO chickenhawks talk about how Russia is “orcs” who have no respect for human life while they celebrate the deaths of conscripts from their couch, you might want to be specific about that in the future

            • CovfefeKills@lemmy.world
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              1 day ago

              Well I never mentioned destroying anyone so I didn’t think I needed to specify what needed to be destroyed until that was brought up.

                • CovfefeKills@lemmy.world
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                  1 day ago

                  I was actually going to say more horrid shit instead of just that but I remembered I have Russian friends and didn’t actually feel that way I am just angry.

                  • Matty Roses@lemmy.today
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                    1 day ago

                    Sure, and I get that.

                    But demonizing entire peoples is part of how warmongers get us to support this awful shit to begin with. It’s one reason why my take is no war but class war, personally.

      • Matty Roses@lemmy.today
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        1 day ago

        Lol what? You think that because Russia spread some money around Brexit only exists because of Russia?

        It’s like the idiots in the US that ignore 70 million people voted for Trump, and want to pretend the only reason for that is that Russia spent $100,000 on Facebook ads. Because they don’t want to address the actual problems that’s destroying their societies. Much easier to just claim it’s all Putler or something.

          • Matty Roses@lemmy.today
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            22 hours ago

            Do you not understand that just because something is to Russia’s advantage, and Russia wants it to happen, does not mean that Russia can make it happen?

            If you think Brexit was to the benefit of Russia, and you oppose Russia’s government (as you should) - OK. Then why wouldn’t you want to address the root causes that are powering anti-EU parties all over? Take away the fuel.

          • Matty Roses@lemmy.today
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            1 day ago

            To aid it and make it worse?

            The West pretty much showed to Russia in the 1990s and 2000s that it was going to consider international relations a zero sum game. So Russia is of course going to work to make the problems the US and UK have worse, as the US has done with Russia.

            • yetAnotherUser@discuss.tchncs.de
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              16 hours ago

              But once you worsen a problem enough, you are the primary cause.

              Conspiracy nuts are harmless until their opinions become more widespread. The root cause is social media illiteracy but if you have nation states acting as fire accelerants every single sparking wire can result in an inferno.

              Oh, and this didn’t even start in the 90s. The Soviets didn’t spread HIV conspiracy theories for fun and games.