By all rights, this should be something I am deeply passionate about. I’ve been in tech/engineering my entire adult life and was obsessed with NASA as a kid. I even live on the east coast of Florida and can sometimes see the launches/landings over the ocean. But I just… don’t care at all. I’m not suffering from depression or any other malaise, and generally things are fine. But I haven’t clicked on a single link or looked at a single image. I know this has not been the case for many, many people, so I’m wondering what might be different about this launch (or really the whole program in general), and curious if anyone else has found themselves feeling the same.
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So basically it gives life aid to capitalism and will let us destroy planet some more. Even worse.
Whitey On The Moon by Gil Scott-Heron comes to mind. Planet is burning and they’re sending money to space.
A rat done bit my sister Nell
With whitey on the moon
Her face and arms began to swell
And whitey’s on the moon
I can’t pay no doctor bills
But whitey’s on the moon
Ten years from now I’ll be payin’ still
While whitey’s on the moon
The man just upped my rent last night
Cause whitey’s on the moon
No hot water, no toilets, no lights
But whitey’s on the moon
I wonder why he’s upping me?
Cause whitey’s on the moon?
Well I was already giving him fifty a week
And now whitey’s on the moon
Taxes taking my whole damn check
Junkies making me a nervous wreck
The price of food is going up
And as if all that crap wasn’t enough:
A rat done bit my sister Nell
With whitey on the moon
Her face and arm began to swell
And whitey’s on the moon
Was all that money I made last year
For whitey on the moon?
How come I ain’t got no money here?
Hmm! Whitey’s on the moon
Y’know I just 'bout had my fill
Of whitey on the moon
I think I’ll send these doctor bills
Airmail special
To whitey on the moonWe have so much problems down here on Earth that Artemis seems like a smokescreen. I see no way it could benefit humanity.
One of the ways it could benefit humanity is to offload the destruction of our environment in pursuit of rare earth metals, natural gases, to a moon or planet where the environment does not support life.
Strip mining and fracking are actively and rapidly destroying our planet. Stopping those activities here would be a massive improvement to our chances of survival on Earth into the future.
Oh asteroid mining with slow electric engines would offload SOOOOOO much emissions and pollution. Granted we would have to build some sort of space elevator or platform which would be a global effort and cost hundreds of trillions in every stage. But once the main aspects were done, it would be very efficient.
Also it turns out asteroids are conveniently formed in layers like an onion. All the work of pulling veins of ore out of ground and rock is unnecessary, because the heavier elements are further towards the center of these much MUCH Smaller bodies than planets, and the lighter elements on on top. It would make it far far easier to find and harvest these minerals and resources than it is now. As most people are aware, rare earth minerals aren’t actually rare, they’re just so scarcely spread out over our crust.
All the minerals and resources we want that are actually from Earth’s formation are hundreds of miles below the surface, most likely in molten form in the mantle, because of how cosmic body formation works with density and gravity. The resources we are extracting were probably almost all deposited by asteroid, meoterite, and comet strikes, that also probably brought our oceans.
All this to say, these asteroid did the same thing Earth did, pulled their heavy materials to their cores, but these are much easier to crack and process than an entire planet. We don’t need to go all Ishimura from Dead Space with planet cracking, when we can just crack open tiny to small sized asteroids and harvest those valuable materials much more readily, in FAR FAR higher quantity than on Earth’s surface, and with very little environmental impact.
That would be givin a lifeline to an already unsustainable and destructive system.
So… we need resources. Like if we go back to preindustrial society, hundreds of millions die, from diseases and famine and disability and a whole onslaught of issues. We are currently fucking over our planet to scrape the remnant of asteroid impacts to make the tools and systems we use. Now, are a bunch of those unnecessary, of course, and can they probably be done better, yes. But until we have Star Trek style replicators or hard light technology, we will need a decent amount of resources to continue existing. And I don’t know about you, but asteroid mining seems a LOT more attainable and within the nearish future timespan than replicators or hard light.
For me, I just don’t see it as the step towards a bright future that it cone was.
So we reinvigorate the world’s interest in space missions, then what? Every iota of evidence from our own planet tells us that businesses are going to own the moon, mars, and beyond. Wayland-Yutani is more likely than The Federation.
I just can’t get excited about another frontier for Musk and Bezos to rub their stanky dicks all over.
I was far more excited to see the solar panels in Syria.
I don’t care because it doesn’t seem like a genuine mission to prove something. It feels like a purely political stunt. At least with the original mission, it was breaking a frontier on top of trying ot show off to Russia during the Cold War, but this time it’s only the US flexing as mandated by the Orangegutan in Charge because he can and it feels icky.
My feelings exactly. This was not politics leveraged to advance science. This was science abused to advance politics.
His name is forever going to be associated with this too. Tainted like our lives have been with his toxicity forever
This system of things, all over the world, is falling apart. Going to space might be likened to a desperate cry for sanity. But a single cry of a baby in an ocean of crying individuals all over the world is not something given much attention.
You already know the answer, I think. It’s because they didn’t land.
Orbiting the moon - super cool. Seeing new stuff from far side - super cool. Emotional investment in something we’ve more or less done before? Well…
Which is actually a damn shame, but brains are funny like that. The entirety of human progress (and hubris) is down to chasing the next dopamine hit - and that probably includes the original moon shot.
Artemis is asking you to feel the same thing twice. Your lizard brain isn’t stupid - it’s just honest and lazy. If novelty is the drug, then this isn’t a new drug. It’s a carefully rebranded rerun with better CGI and a press kit. Plus, you’ve probably had a lot of other proxy hits to the ol’ reward center so that something as big as “humans in a tin can fly around the moon” just registers as “meh - I’ve seen better on For All Mankind”.
And I hate that for us.
Honestly I don’t even think I would care if they had landed. If they were setting up some sort of base I’d be into it – mostly to geek out over the new tech and techniques that would have to be developed for construction, environmental control, etc. But for just boots on the ground? Still kinda meh.
I’d be excited for boots on Mars, but again maybe for the same reasons - just to get people there and back would require an almost unthinkable (today) level of development and dedication of resources.
We’ve become so…jaded. I remember flying home from Japan, watching movies on my Ipad and dicking around on the net via inflight wifi. Literally flying over the ocean, in a chair, in the sky, with a supercomputer the size of a book, using invisible waves to communicate instantaneously across the globe.
Yawn.
Our calibration for extraordinary is out of whack. That’s the issue, I think.
I kinda felt the same way tbh, I love space stuff so usually I would be super exited about it, and maybe following it in real time, specially taking into account the budget cuts that NASA has been getting over the previous decades, I should be hopeful for the start of a new age of (manned) space exploration, but given the current political climate I can’t ignore that the whole thing ends up being a demonstration of power by the USA first and a scientific mission second.
Thing is, this has always been the case since the very first space missions, it’s nothing new that governments only finance space programs for ulterior motives. Maybe I’ve become too cynical to be able to separate stuff from their political context.
I literally don’t even want to watch Project Hail Mary.
I think of all those space movies where the Earth has to do something together. Where it cuts to listeners in Paris, Beijing, Zimbabwe, New York, and Moscow before going back to some Mission Control center saying “We’re counting on you.”
Then I realize, in reality, there would be American cultists actively fighting any kind of effort to save the world, or run a giant “DEI WILL DOOM US” campaign because one of the astronaut crew is part Asian.
I want these stupid fanciful astronauts to see that we actively don’t have the circumstances to create these wonderful worldwide moments of joy anymore because of the overwhelming levels of sick hatred they’ve created in bankrupting our world of empathy and flooding it with religious propaganda.
The people personally funding rockets could have cured cancer everywhere with their savings. I honestly think if a lethal meteor was headed for the Earth, they’d want to live, but they’d invest everything into trying to save themselves rather than trying to save everyone.
Project Hail Mary doesn’t do that, from what I recall. I think it’s just the US government/military collecting a bunch of scientists. Maybe it’s cut from the adaptation. The mission has a lengthy timeline of decades while the existential threat is already harming the planet. It doesn’t really paint the Earth in any kind of dreamy co-op light from what I recall.
It’s a beautiful movie. I like hard sci-fi drama. My SO does not. We both enjoyed it as it split the difference. It has some beautiful visuals along the way. It’s far from “men being dicks in space” like Ad Astra and it doesn’t do the Armageddon thing with the global livestream. I’m not saying you have to watch it, but it’s just a nice, well done movie worth the time IMO.
You’re criticizing NASA, a public entity, as if they are in the same club as the billionaires making phallus-shaped rockets and putting pop stars into space. They’re not the same.
Also, the Artemis Program’s entire budget so far, over the span of ~ a decade is 93 billion. The US spends 997 billion on its war machine every single year.
Maybe they could bomb, shoot, or invade 10% less in the future and give that money to support those in need?
I actually wasn’t even trying to criticize NASA. “The people personally funding rockets” refers to private companies like SpaceX.
My only criticism to NASA isn’t really on their funding, but on their general goals of spreading joy through their accomplishments; of having Hollywood movies where we see the whole world unite around a shared cause.
The sad reality is, that reality could be as simple as “our planet doesn’t blow up” and we’d have some people remark “MIGHT BE WORTH IT TO KILL THOSE EVIL LIB’RULS” or “Finally, we achieved Armageddon! And here I thought we needed to purge the West Bank first! Where’s Jesus and the risen army?”
My personal opinion of it is that it was either a reaffirmation of the tech need to do it, in which case its kinda sad that we haven’t progressed beyond that for the last 50 years. The other idea I have of it is that it was the simplest and fastest way to get eyes on the dark side of the moon to verify or discount the notion of China building a base there
Nah, it’s way easier to send a satellite to take a look.
It’s impossible to secretly launch enough payloads to build a moonbase in the first place. Every launch has to pass through low earth orbit and rockets are shiny. There are too many eyes on the sky to go unnoticed. Even then, there’d be radio chatter between the Earth and Moon, and satellite redirection from the far side. You can encrypt radio signals, but they can’t hide.
I guess because it’s not that special.
So much problems to get mad about. Don’t have time to be happy for some people so far away. We are try to survive everday.
Here are the reason.
I feel oddly similar. I think it’s that I can’t cheer for America.
We should have gone to mars by now, but all the funds went to child raping fascists and bombs apparently
i dont think we are technologically there to get to the mars even with money, probably a few more decades of funding and research.
We can with enough money. We already established we can build stuff in orbit and send stuff to orbit. All you need to get to mars is a larger rocket. So assemble it in space and go to mars. It’s the same problem of going to the moon just with more delta v.
Yep. But that’s the thing, we could’ve been there if we didn’t spend the resources necessary for it on stupid things the last ~5 decades.
that is true, largely everyone forgot about space exploration, and focused on WAR economy instead.
I’m just glad the thing didn’t explode on launch or come flying apart on reentry.
NASA’s problem is that their goals get derailed every time the executive changes hands, so they serve no strategic purpose. The moonbase idea is idiotic. Getting bots out to explore asteroids for potential mining is not. NASA should be building the infrastructure for that.
Isn’t one of this missions main goals testing new tech and theories to move us towards exactly what you are asking for?
They could have done this forty years ago. And a moonbase is a waste of money and time. And it’s all moot because Trump just nuked another $14B off NASA’s budget anyway.
The second-best time is now though
I wouldn’t say a moon base is idiotic on its own. It seems the next logical step in space exploration after a space station like the ISS to me. But as someone who also didn’t really follow the mission: I think this is because at the same time our home (i.e. earth) has such massive problems that take up all the attention. I’m sure at boring times I would have followed that mission very closely…
It’s been overshadowed by other current events. Quite a shame, really
It’s more than that. The thought of us doing something incredible like establishing a permanent moon base feels more depressing than inspiring these days because enshitification will be baked into it right from the planning stages
If the Untied States manages to survive the mess it is in, it will probably declare ownership of the moon and declare anyone else who manages to land there illegal aliens…including actual aliens
I have become very cynical of tech over the past several years and am strongly opposed to any sort of space colonization.
Me to. Theres a podcast called “tech won’t save us” that i hate listening to because it reminds me how much we have lost.
I get your sentiment but that’s exactly why we need space colonization.
There is a thing called translatio imperii which means that empires aren’t created nor destroyed, they just move from one location to the next, always on the frontline of humanity.
If we don’t get spaceflight, the US will stay an imperial entity for eternity. Only if space colonization succeeds, mars can become the next empire which means that the US stops being one, interestingly.
Fuck that. Saying empires are inevitable is a lot like saying fascism is inevitable. Maybe it’s true but you shouldn’t identify with the thing and make it’s purpose your own
That’s complete and utter bullshit.
“Frontline of humanity” what does that even mean, historically? Humanity has always been spread across the earth.
I see absolutely no evidence for this historically, what I see is just people in the Middle Ages trying to brand themselves as the successors to Rome for PR.
The idea of Mars becoming an “empire” is pure fantasy. We can’t even begin to talk about the lack of natural resources when there’s literally no air. Maybe in 40,000 years or something, but not on any foreseeable timescale.
If we don’t get spaceflight, the US will stay an imperial entity for eternity.
This is straight up magical thinking. You might as well say that someone has to sacrifice a virgin goat on the night that the stars are in alignment for the US empire to end. There is zero logical or causal connection between those things, and empires don’t just last “eternally” unless somebody casts the right magic spell.
Maybe in 40,000 years or something, but not on any foreseeable timescale.
Similarly, the NYT predicted in 1903 that it would take “one million to ten million years for humanity to develop an operating flying machine” (airplane). The wright brothers achieved the first powered airplane flight sixty-nine days later. Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Machines_Which_Do_Not_Fly
You might want to think about this.
A technological breakthrough could make Mars colonization feasible. It might even be possible for it to be self-sustaining. Who knows?
But an empire? That’s utterly ridiculous. You might as well say that the thing that the American empire will last eternally unless and until we genetically engineer a race of intelligent dragons who will replace it with a dragon empire, and if anyone expresses skepticism of that fantasy, you could just as easily point to “people didn’t think the Wright Brothers could fly.”
One wrong skeptic a hundred years ago doesn’t mean every fantasy is going to happen. There’s countless predictions that didn’t come true.
But an empire? That’s utterly ridiculous.
What’s your argument here? Why is it ridiculous?
Thats actually a perfect explanation that I think is inline with this
https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/YfhA3KWLtFqBeFnpb/my-specific-singularity-timeline-to-utopia
Class warfare will be the foundation it’s all built on. Any tech developed for the moon, Mars, whatever - anything we gain in knowledge in return - is going to go to benefit rich fuckers, not you. One day there will be more space tourists. Rich people, not you. Maybe one day Man will even colonize another world. Rich people, not you.
Maybe they will take us along as servants? Oh, no, they will build robots for that…
In case we’re not familiar with the cultural/economic backdrop of Bladerunner, etc.:
spoiler
all humans that could afford to leave the planet had done so long before the period the first movie was set in, and those humans that couldn’t quietly, secretly turned into unpaid, unwitting sublime training nodes for each new model of replicant —until said trainees failed to recall their synthetic origins, and could replace the humans without any blowback, scrutiny, or awareness of it at all, really. 😶
This is not scifi. This is where those fucknuts are aiming our species. 🥲
Plus, space travel mainly benefits the super rich.
Ay?
Do you mean only the super rich will be able to travel?
The only travel anyone will be doing in the next 100 years or more will be going to the moon to squeeze into a tiny smelly hab module to figure out how to avoid getting regolith in your ass crack.
I think space travel will be the exclusive reserve of hard core science nuts.
Even in say 500 years. Will there be a “colony” on Mars with anything more than a dozen science nerds? I doubt it.
That goddamn scandal. The persecution of minorities and the warmongering. The socio-political climate now is far worse compared to the Apollo missions then conducted at the time the US government was unpopular mainly because of the Vietnam War.
The arguments against Artemis aren’t surprising as these also mirror the skepticism towards the Apollo program.
Epstein files ?
