That’s on them. They have the same access to the world wide web as we do. Maybe if they spent more time doing their homework instead of posting pro-MAGA Minion memes, we’d all be better off.
Im not sure if you’re calling for harsher punishments to the billionaires that own mainstream media or if you’re arguing that there should be further consequences for people that fell for a sophisticated misinformation campaign who are already suffering disproportionately under this administration.
I think it’s disingenuous to ignore the heavy conservative leanings of a significant portion of Hispanic households as well as any who immigrated “the right way” and are pissed off by undocumented workers.
I’m not arguing for either, although taxing/eating the rich should always be on the table.
I’m saying that while in the macro sense disinformation has had a devastating effect on society, I’m not ready to let those “fooled” by it off the hook. It’s the 2020s, if you’re fooled by disinformation to this degree, you’ve let yourself be fooled.
It’s nice to have the privilege of time to research or a good education to base things off of, isn’t it? I have them, too. Poverty and oppression doesnt give over a quarter of Americans (which is also disproportionately represented in the south) that leeway.
Do you think you’re immune to disinformation? Oh right I forgot it’s only the other side that is being lied too you’re right everything you say and think is correct.
I do not think I’m immune from disinformation, which means I try very hard to use critical thinking at all times. I’m suggesting they should have as well.
If people didn’t have time to get better information, Netflix, YouTube, Facebook et al would be worthless. They are not.
People made choices. Those choices are biting then in the ass. Education is not free. However, lack of knowledge can be fixed with some small amount of effort.
It can be hard to get absolute truths in an age of misinformation, but there was plenty of information that was common knowledge about truno and his racism. He’d also already had a pretty awful first term, which ended in an insurrection.
If they were fooled, it was wilful ignorance. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t also hold the misinformation machine responsible, nor welcome them back into the fold of normalcy. If we, or they, don’t recognise that they bear responsibility also, it’s going to keep happening.
I don’t think you have to be particularly privileged to have the sliver of a soul necessary to be opposed to literally rounding up and mass deporting entire ethnicities. This isn’t exactly a nuanced issue, and I think it’s deeply condescending to imply that poor and uneducated people don’t have the basic moral decency to be opposed to the indiscriminate deportation of entire communities. Let’s be honest, these people thought they were white enough to be exempt. They thought they didn’t have to worry because they weren’t Haitian/Brown enough/etc.
Nobody here is saying that anybody is immune to propaganda, what are you on?? I’m literally a determinist and even I think this is the stupidest argument. Great, conservatives have propaganda. I guess that means nobody in this world is a shitty person except Murdoch? What are you even trying to say?
Hispanics all over lean conservative. It comes with high religiosity rates. Look at any conservative members of a minority group and they’ll probably be religious.
“We’re pissed off at the current administration. Everybody’s pissed off down here in south Texas,” the construction executive said, noting that most Hispanics in the area are Catholic. “Remember, we’re conservative, we’re not far left. We’re in the middle, conservative Latinos in south Texas. It doesn’t make sense.”
They expected a scenario that would work out well for themselves. They didn’t put any effort into thinking about whether or not any given scenario would work out well for themselves, but the Republican media assured them it would work out, so why would they doubt that?
Thinking isn’t how Trump supporters become Trump supporters. Fear is.
Their propaganda networks told them to be more concerned about trans people and Haitian immigrants than real important topics.
They didn’t consider he’d actually do what he said he would do on immigration because they were too busy cowering in fear over bullshit culture war garbage and hyper focusing on that.
The Democrats to do the same. This was the year Democrats came up with yet another brilliant strategy to win over “moderate” Republicans by pivoting hard right on immigration, abandoning any talk of “building the wall is racist” in favor of “Trump doesn’t actually want to build the wall, we’re the ones who will actually do it.” Naturally, it didn’t do shit to win over anti-immigrant people who still saw them as weak on immigration compared to the Republicans, but it was quite effective at alienating immigrants and pro-immigration people.
Turns out, there’s a decent number of Hispanics with conservative inclinations who are willing to overlook them and vote Democrat, so long as they believe the Republicans are racist against them. Since the Democrats decided that criticizing anti-immigrant policies as racist was too alienating to racists, those conservative Hispanics lost the one reason they were willing to vote Democrat and voted based on culture war bullshit instead.
It’s an incredibly stupid strategy, but there’s a couple factors that cause Dem leadership to keep trying it over and over.
First, and primarily, turning right tends to square better with what their corporate donors want.
They’re also stuck in the past, they think we’re still in the early 2000s where there was a broad, bipartisan consensus on interventionist foreign policy and taking away privacy rights and such. They think Trump is a bizarre, random fluke, and that there are countless moderate Republicans who still believe in that consensus. In reality, some didn’t ever believe in it, some just followed whatever they were told to believe, but a lot became disillusioned when that consensus failed miserably, with decades-long wars accomplishing nothing.
Part of the problem is that they stay in their bubbles, and that “moderate Republican” perspective is disproportionately represented in elite, Beltway circles. People like Dick Cheney are almost universally reviled outside of those circles, but the Dems aren’t even aware of it.
Then there’s this “conventional wisdom” that puts everyone’s political views on a one dimensional spectrum and concludes that the most moderate candidate will always win. Completely ignoring mobilization, enthusiasm, Trump’s multiple wins which fly in the face of the theory, the ability to change people’s political views and identities, the fact that politics is way more complex than one dimension (for example, the effect I mentioned before with Hispanic Trump voters).
That’s basically Clinton’s “Third Way” which Democrats view as the greatest political revelation to ever occur, the move that saved the party! They treat the 1992 election like it was a miraculous win against an unbeatable opponent, not Americans realizing Reagan was a fraud thanks to two depressions in 5 years. It has guided the party ever since, which is why Obama’s big healthcare plan was Heritage Foundation slop and Biden’s big win was giving the most valuable companies in the world a shitload of taxpayer money.
They expected him to overthrow the governments in Latin America so they could go back to being petite bourgeois landlords on the south side of the border.
And he has helped overthrow a bunch of Latin American governments. So a bunch of them still like him.
wtf did they expect?
What Texas media and social pressure told them to. That’s why we shouldn’t let billionaires and liars run the media
That’s on them. They have the same access to the world wide web as we do. Maybe if they spent more time doing their homework instead of posting pro-MAGA Minion memes, we’d all be better off.
That’s letting them off the hook.
Im not sure if you’re calling for harsher punishments to the billionaires that own mainstream media or if you’re arguing that there should be further consequences for people that fell for a sophisticated misinformation campaign who are already suffering disproportionately under this administration.
I think it’s disingenuous to ignore the heavy conservative leanings of a significant portion of Hispanic households as well as any who immigrated “the right way” and are pissed off by undocumented workers.
I’m not arguing for either, although taxing/eating the rich should always be on the table.
I’m saying that while in the macro sense disinformation has had a devastating effect on society, I’m not ready to let those “fooled” by it off the hook. It’s the 2020s, if you’re fooled by disinformation to this degree, you’ve let yourself be fooled.
It’s nice to have the privilege of time to research or a good education to base things off of, isn’t it? I have them, too. Poverty and oppression doesnt give over a quarter of Americans (which is also disproportionately represented in the south) that leeway.
At some point you have to allow them their agency. They are adults, and only one of us is treating them as such.
Do you think you’re immune to disinformation? Oh right I forgot it’s only the other side that is being lied too you’re right everything you say and think is correct.
I do not think I’m immune from disinformation, which means I try very hard to use critical thinking at all times. I’m suggesting they should have as well.
If people didn’t have time to get better information, Netflix, YouTube, Facebook et al would be worthless. They are not.
People made choices. Those choices are biting then in the ass. Education is not free. However, lack of knowledge can be fixed with some small amount of effort.
It can be hard to get absolute truths in an age of misinformation, but there was plenty of information that was common knowledge about truno and his racism. He’d also already had a pretty awful first term, which ended in an insurrection.
If they were fooled, it was wilful ignorance. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t also hold the misinformation machine responsible, nor welcome them back into the fold of normalcy. If we, or they, don’t recognise that they bear responsibility also, it’s going to keep happening.
It’s a mistake to act as if blame is zero-sum. There’s plenty of blame to go around! Billionaires, the media, and the voters can all be responsible!
I don’t think you have to be particularly privileged to have the sliver of a soul necessary to be opposed to literally rounding up and mass deporting entire ethnicities. This isn’t exactly a nuanced issue, and I think it’s deeply condescending to imply that poor and uneducated people don’t have the basic moral decency to be opposed to the indiscriminate deportation of entire communities. Let’s be honest, these people thought they were white enough to be exempt. They thought they didn’t have to worry because they weren’t Haitian/Brown enough/etc.
You’re not immune to propaganda.
Nobody here is saying that anybody is immune to propaganda, what are you on?? I’m literally a determinist and even I think this is the stupidest argument. Great, conservatives have propaganda. I guess that means nobody in this world is a shitty person except Murdoch? What are you even trying to say?
noy OP. but your argument is people don’t have agency.
on that we can agree, however, see Cipolla’s Laws on Stupidity 1, 3 and 5 in particular. You seem to have fallen for 4.
Hispanics all over lean conservative. It comes with high religiosity rates. Look at any conservative members of a minority group and they’ll probably be religious.
They expected deportations of only the “bad mexicans”, not understanding thst every mexican is bad to this admin.
solidarity is a lost virtue in some communities.
The destruction of the left:
Bear in mind they are talking about what was probably the most conservative Democrat to hold office since the 50s.
This guy deserves whatever MAGA gives him
What doesn’t make sense? Conservatives want a white country.
They expected a scenario that would work out well for themselves. They didn’t put any effort into thinking about whether or not any given scenario would work out well for themselves, but the Republican media assured them it would work out, so why would they doubt that?
I dunno, 200 years of American racism and past Republican sentiments towards Mexicans and Hispanics might have been a tip in the right direction.
God forbid anyone educate themselves before sticking a knife in a lightsocket.
They did what daddy told them too and as mad as they are they will continue to vote red.
Thinking isn’t how Trump supporters become Trump supporters. Fear is.
Their propaganda networks told them to be more concerned about trans people and Haitian immigrants than real important topics.
They didn’t consider he’d actually do what he said he would do on immigration because they were too busy cowering in fear over bullshit culture war garbage and hyper focusing on that.
Plus, he’d only go after the bad ones, right?
Probably not concentration camps
Oh, they did, they just figured they’d be for someone else
The Democrats to do the same. This was the year Democrats came up with yet another brilliant strategy to win over “moderate” Republicans by pivoting hard right on immigration, abandoning any talk of “building the wall is racist” in favor of “Trump doesn’t actually want to build the wall, we’re the ones who will actually do it.” Naturally, it didn’t do shit to win over anti-immigrant people who still saw them as weak on immigration compared to the Republicans, but it was quite effective at alienating immigrants and pro-immigration people.
Turns out, there’s a decent number of Hispanics with conservative inclinations who are willing to overlook them and vote Democrat, so long as they believe the Republicans are racist against them. Since the Democrats decided that criticizing anti-immigrant policies as racist was too alienating to racists, those conservative Hispanics lost the one reason they were willing to vote Democrat and voted based on culture war bullshit instead.
Why whould anybody who wants the original vote for a lesser copy?
I never really understood the political “strategy” of aping the opposition by offering an milder version of their policies.
It’s an incredibly stupid strategy, but there’s a couple factors that cause Dem leadership to keep trying it over and over.
First, and primarily, turning right tends to square better with what their corporate donors want.
They’re also stuck in the past, they think we’re still in the early 2000s where there was a broad, bipartisan consensus on interventionist foreign policy and taking away privacy rights and such. They think Trump is a bizarre, random fluke, and that there are countless moderate Republicans who still believe in that consensus. In reality, some didn’t ever believe in it, some just followed whatever they were told to believe, but a lot became disillusioned when that consensus failed miserably, with decades-long wars accomplishing nothing.
Part of the problem is that they stay in their bubbles, and that “moderate Republican” perspective is disproportionately represented in elite, Beltway circles. People like Dick Cheney are almost universally reviled outside of those circles, but the Dems aren’t even aware of it.
Then there’s this “conventional wisdom” that puts everyone’s political views on a one dimensional spectrum and concludes that the most moderate candidate will always win. Completely ignoring mobilization, enthusiasm, Trump’s multiple wins which fly in the face of the theory, the ability to change people’s political views and identities, the fact that politics is way more complex than one dimension (for example, the effect I mentioned before with Hispanic Trump voters).
That’s basically Clinton’s “Third Way” which Democrats view as the greatest political revelation to ever occur, the move that saved the party! They treat the 1992 election like it was a miraculous win against an unbeatable opponent, not Americans realizing Reagan was a fraud thanks to two depressions in 5 years. It has guided the party ever since, which is why Obama’s big healthcare plan was Heritage Foundation slop and Biden’s big win was giving the most valuable companies in the world a shitload of taxpayer money.
In general, humans don’t behave rationally. It’s time to stop pretending we do.
They expected to become rich. They was the sum total of the thought.
It was because of Biden’s promise to cut back the gas industry in the SW.
They expected him to overthrow the governments in Latin America so they could go back to being petite bourgeois landlords on the south side of the border.
And he has helped overthrow a bunch of Latin American governments. So a bunch of them still like him.
On the money🎯.
Even Mexicans are only salty they can’t have slaves they used to oppress.
Please libs, tell us how Mexico still treats the Zapatistas.