I support Firefox doing whatever Firefox needs to do to keep doing what they do…
I won’t fucking touch it, but I need them to continue to exist so I can use forks of it like waterfox and librewolf
“we’re here as and independent voice”.
Yeah, sure. Tell Donald Trump, Elon Musk and Israel to fuck off, just to test your independence.
We desperately a full new browser. I just want to block ads,AI and tracking with a foss project.
Java blocking also.
Another, actively NOT taking a stand. Sigh.
aren’t they living on a google anti-trust payouts? iono. their mozilla.social was a snooze fest
I found @FirefoxOfficial@mastodon.social ; created on July 14th and verified domain ownership. Shouldn’t we mention this as well?
So? Is it that hard to believe that a company that’s working in today’s environment is using one of the most effective platforms out there even if it’s run by a white supremacist?
News at 11, most people suck and don’t have the stomach to not use something popular even if they’re run by a horrible human being.
Should I make the meme “Meet potential browser engine”?
Use ecosia instead?
Please, Mozilla, explain in detail exactly in which way the internet is changing again, that requires you to return to Faschitter? Please help me make sense of this.
The answer is money
Always has been at Mozilla
Always has been at any company.
What money? Do they get paid to be on Xitter?
Bet
You didn’t state how much you are betting.
Two
Is that a lot?
It’s more than one, but less than 6-7.
Who are you, to be so wise in the ways of counting?
Cutting off Twitter means losing potential audience. It was an ideological stance when they did it, now nothing ideological is left at MozCorp.
Really what real people.are left on twitter?
Nazis, and people okay with sharing space with nazis.
Nazis and also Nazis. So not really people anyone should ever give a fuck about.
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Nazis do not deserve to be catered to or courted as an audience.
I know, it’s a facetious comment meant to put them on the spot for blaming some sort of “change in the internet (again)”.
The fuck you doing Kurt Vinnegut, speaking from fake lemmy profiles. I know it as you, Kurt. Admit your Kilgore trout@ i know your the same person! It just is as it he. Poo te weet! As I say it now. Fuck is time weird. A quake coming. And that’s God’s slapstick; our dumbasses.
To me it seems like they’re really pushing for mass-market appeal right now compared to just maintaining or slowly growing their existing more dedicated/niche base.
You can see it with them adding widgets, a free VPN, more visibly advertising trackers blocked (at least on Android, not sure about iOS), rebranding with a new mascot, and now going back to a platform that still has a ton of user lock-in keeping people there. They’re trying to pull in regular people, I presume so they don’t become as dependent on a base that has more strongly held convictions that Mozilla has to comply with to keep its users.
If it works out for them, it’ll be good for their long-term funding and security, market appeal, etc, but bad for users that care a lot more about fundamental principles.
There’s potential users there, and ff isn’t going to lose any users by rejoining.
Maybe 5 angry Lemmy user.
I just can’t imagine anyone is going to change to chrome because ff started posting to x.
Because those are the only two browsers in existence…
… aside from the soft forks.
Basically, yes.
There are alternative forks.
Brave?
Just kidding 😓
Not really. The soft forks are more like pre-packaged configurations than separate browsers. If ff dies all the forks die.
I’ve used LibreWolf for years now but I still consider myself to be using firefox.
Just lost one now. How many did it gain?
Did you switch to a chrome fork?
librewolf
These soft forks are more like pre-packaged configurations than another browser.
AI?
yes
Sadly plenty of ppl still use Twitter, plenty of companies and celebs still doing their thing there. Why do we have to single out Firefox? It’s not a company that as ideals like most people here do. Yeah their new stuff is definitely shady, but it’s that for Chromium. I’ll still use Firefox, this doesn’t bother me at all, cuz honestly who gives a fuck. I get the optics, but we do not live in a perfect world of morals and ideals. I only have limited energy I can dish out and this affects me 0% so I’ll put that much into it. People are addicted to being angry all the time…
My comment isn’t really about them returning to X. It’s about them blaming it on some type of sudden change in the internet that’s supposedly happening “again”, that’s forcing them to return. Just be honest and say it’s for the reason you mentioned, that they want to reach as many as possible. 👍
“We had a think and realized fascism is what we’re all about, so we’re back!”
The only way to get ahead in today’s world is to abandon all of your principles. What a shitty set-up.
There’s a debate to be had about not participating in platforms that do bad things vs. reaching people where they are, I suppose.
reaching people where they are.
Aaaand that’s how we got Twitter.
There is no “reaching people.” Twitter is algorithmic. It only shows posts to people who’d find it engaging; in others words, you’re either posting into a black hole, preaching to the choir, or intentionally rage baiting.
The is no point in advocacy there. It gives the illusion of it, but it’s a lie.
Now, if they want to prepend every post with a link to Bluesky/Fediverse?
That’s great.
A siphon off the site is great. They’d probably get deprioritized for it, kinda like how posting Lemmy links seems to get one shadowbanned on Reddit. But participating in Twitter is otherwise just feeding the trolls.
Also reaching the people who most need to be reached.
I still remember this line someone said while complaining about how The Boys was toothless at actually pushing back against hero worship and capitalism.
You don’t have to care, but vou really can’t even if you want to.
i find it ironic how a lot of anti-capitalist shows are owned by Amazon and Apple
Let the people play out their fantasies of justice, equity, and revolution in a totally contained, purely virtual way.
Sell back the answer so people dont look for one themself.
Companies don’t have morals, all they have is just profit. Why are you holding Firefox to some mythical standard? It’s a company, it’s only gotten shadier. Can’t wait when other browsers hit the market in a couple years and Firefox will eventually die. Just a matter of time, they can’t increase their market share for fuck all.
Mozilla is embracing the fasch like all the other motherfuckers.
mozillas existence is too intertwined with GOOGLe.
Fascism is when using twitter?
It might be disappointing, but not much more.
Musk bought Twitter and renamed it X, and it now serves at the semi-official fascist-international forum.
In case you’ve lived under a giant rock since 2022…
I just don’t live in a echo chamber so closed that I would believe that any person using twitter is a fascist.
What would be next, anyone using firefox is a fascist?
You do understand where that way of thinking ends? You must understand it.
that I would believe that any person using twitter is a fascist.
Not every person on Twitter is a fascist.
But every person on Twitter supports fascists. Very literally. In a financial sense.
Please elaborate on how having a twitter account financially supports fascism. I’d think the opposite if used by the majority of people. I’m genuinely asking, not trying to start a fight.
The most simple, straightforward, and concise way is my least favorite word in the world: metrics. By using X, you increase the amount of activity on the platform, which the Muskrat takes to advertisers and investors and says “Look how many people use my platform, you should be paying me more money for access to the value they have as consumers/data to harvest.”
This is actually why they made that ad-blocker that clicks on every single ad it blocks that I can never remember the name of. Because it financially hurts both the company serving the ads and the advertisers themselves as well by both messing with their data on you as a consumer (they can’t add your interests to a group to sell to advertisers if you just click on everything) and by hurting their click-through to sales metric. Their click-through rate goes up, but because their purchase rate doesn’t, it makes the metric go down and makes them less willing to spend as much on an advertising spot when they’re less likely to get a return on that money.
There’s also that whole thing where people go where there’s a lot of people and by being part of the group that keeps people there, you’re exposing them to right-wing propaganda and the various disinformation bot campaigns and whatnot, but that’s a lot harder to explain/messier to get into.
Ah, thanks! That was very easy to understand!
Higher MAU = More companies buying advertisements = supporting twitter
Its about Musk having control of a major social platform. Just think about the implications an evil person can do i.e. mark Zuckerberg except richer
I won’t argue that.
That’s the reason I don’t do twitter and I restrain myself for many products.
But you know what they say “there’s no ethical consumption under capitalism”.
It’s ok to boicot things to hurt them financially as far as you are able to. But let’s not demonize anyone who doesn’t carry the boicot as far as you can carry it, because that’s counter productive.
“there’s no ethical consumption under capitalism”.
The VPS hosting of every Lemmy instance is thus unethical. Mastodon is then unethical. Buying a gun to defend yourself and your home is then unethical. Buying a child food is then unethical.
Hard disagree. The issues of life are not so cut and dry.
Fuck Twitter tho.
I meant that everything you buy in a capitalist world is putting money in hands of bad people.
You buy baby food from nestle and you are giving money to terrible people.
What I implied in the post, is that that doesn’t make you a bad person. You need to live, and most importantly, you have right to enjoy your life. That would inevitably lead to giving money to bad people.
Here a corporation, Mozilla, is using a service from a bad person, twitter. Are they as bad because of it? I don’t think so. There are other people, like Bernie Sanders, who still have an active twitter account. They are doing consumption that profits bad people, but in a capitalist economy that is inevitable. Thus I don’t think the consumption of something should be the sole factor judging the ethics of a person.
We live in a society where is very hard or sometimes impossible to avoid it. Here, Mozilla or Bernie Sanders, haven’t found another social network with enough userbase for their communication purposes. I personally don’t agree with their choice, But I won’t call them fash for making that choice. Because I know how limited consumption offers are in a capitalist world.
Yeah but we don’t need to defend corps that support fascists either.
That’s ok. I’m all for criticize mozilla for all the questionable shit they are doing lately. Either to achieve a change on them or to promote an alternative.
I’m just agaist calling fascist people that have not shown that they are indeed fascist.
Being fascist is something very very bad. For instance, to my view, violence against fascism is justified, that’s why I really try to distinguish who is actually fascist, and who is just not actively fighting them.
To be fair, there’s plenty of things you can forego with no cost or negative cost. This isn’t like having to buy food at a grocery store. So while you can’t use the internet ethically, you can make ethical choices about which websites you visit.
That’s why I don’t go on twitter or reddit.
But I understand that different people have different needs. A company or a politician might need reach. They are not just someone having fun online. For them is their business.
I actually think is a bad choice, because they would have better public elsewhere. But a wrong decision like that would make them just wrong, not fascist.
What way of thinking are you describing exactly? Twitter is owned and run by a Nazi, it is being used as a tool to promote his political ideology. We’re 4 years in, anyone still there is either ignorant on the matter, or complacent about being paft of a fascist online platform
https://www.avclub.com/twitter-x-amplifying-right-wing-accounts
You don’t need to convince me of that.
I’ve been saying Musk is fash from way before be associated himself with Trump.
He is fascist because he believes in fascist ideology.
The way of thinking I talk about is thinking someone is fascist because they use a product or service provided by a fascist. Because the logical conclusions of that line of though are terrible.
There’s a saying… “If there are ten people sitting at a table eating dinner, and one of them is a nazi, you’ve got ten nazis.”
That logic leads to infinite nazi generation.
And to some incongruencies.
What happens if there’s 10 person in the table, one is nazi and one is antifa. Are them all nazis? Are them all antifascist?
It doesn’t seem like good logic to me.
you are saying that X isnt a platform for fascist, yet its owned by one, which is it? and it has been owned by musk since 2022, you defintely need to get out from under the rock.
at this point i can’t take anyone who says “echo chamber” seriously any more, it’s only used to defend shitheads
You do realize you’re proving the exact point you’re criticizing… right?
There are some instances that’s evident that a person haven’t have a serious talk with anyone thinking different than them in a long time. And that’s just looping on feedback for the same line of though.
This is pretty clear when people make so broad assumptions of the type every X is Y.
In this case we are talking about people saying “everyone using twitter is fash”. In my opinion that’s very hard to justify unless you are deep in some echo chamber and you have just read that a thousand times and this it has got engraved in your thoughts. Because that’s not a rational or logical though. It’s pretty evident that there are tons of people who are on twitter and are not fascist. Just for giving an example Bernie Sanders has a twitter account and he posted there 10 hours ago. Is Bernie Sanders a fascist?
Indeed, if that person went and said that IRL to regular people they’d be laughed at. But alas one of the biggest symptoms of echo chambers is not being able to recognize you’re in one.
Lemmy in particular is becoming more and more extremist as time goes and nobody seems to notice or care. Where people used to argue their opinions, they now just block/downvote and move on because that person must be evil/nazi/fascist/troll/a russian bot and their mind cannot be changed.
You accept the standard you walk past.
Just a question.
If firefox is a fascist company for using the product of a fascist.
Is everyone using firefox a fascist for using the product of what you say is a fascist company?
“You say hate peanuts, but by the transitive property of being a literal nutcase, you hate yourself? Curious.” 🙄 (cmon…)
If the place you get your groceries starts giving handjobs to racists, despite what the staff and their customers want, would it be a place you still want to shop at
One thing is not liking/agreeing them. Other much different is calling them fascist.
I’m not a sith lord. Not all who is not with me is against me.
Maybe if I go, being antifascist, they also give me a handjob. Then what? Are they racist for giving handjob to racist, are they antifa for giving handjob to antifa?
Lot of sealions in this thread
You do understand where that way of thinking ends? You must understand it.
Do you understand where supporting the far-right and giving them free airtime ends?
Arguing with people about this I found out Bernie Sanders has an active Twitter account. Is Bernie Sanders also fash? Is Bernie Sanders supporting Musk?
The problem with what I criticized is that by that logic everyone is far right, including you and me, because we both surely use or buy products that are owned by fash.
The problem with what I criticized is that by that logic everyone is far right, including you and me, because we both surely use or buy products that are owned by fash.
And you don’t see a problem with that?
Yes! That’s why I have the políitical ideology I have. And why I try to boicot them as much as I can.
I’m here and not in reddit because I do want to change that.
It’s nazi Facebook dude. Yes, using twitter is supporting fascism, quite literally
So Bernie Sanders is literally supporting fascism?
He enables it like all the others on it, yes, even if they oppose it in principle. That doesn’t automatically make them fascists, but it makes them complicit.
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At least they are no longer “fascist”.
A step in the good direction.
Literally owned by a billionaire who promotes fascism everywhere and has been caught manipulating the algorithms publicly. What other proofs could you possibly need?
In order to call Mozilla a fascist company the proof I would need is a evidence of them believing and promoting the fascist ideology.
On another example Bernie Sanders used Twitter. I would also need extra proof that he is a fascist.
no one’s saying these are fascists but contributing to fascist network makes fascists stronger not weaker, no?
Quite some people here is actually saying they are. And that’s the only thing I’m arguing. That they are not fascist.
Using any Musk service does make Musk stronger. That’s real, I won’t argue that.
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Fucking cowards. So many spineless losers who clutched their pearls after The Salute and pledged to leave. Too many other cowards stayed, so now they go back because “we can’t lose touch with all the cowards”.
It’s just that classic corporate moral grandstanding in another flavor, like companies who are pro-Pride for June but forget queer people exist 11 months of the year, or worse, only have Pride acknowledgement during Democrat presidencies.
Virtually every (large) (for-profit) company’s moral compass is: Get more money.
If fully endorsing Hitler would result in a 1% rise in profits, they’d do it.
Pathetic
