(I’m just trying to learn. No hidden mockery in this and this is no gotcha bs aimed at t women. I’m NOT transphobic. Just saw this in a debate and wanted to know other people’s thoughts)
I just want to know:
- Is this factually correct?
- If it is, does it matter? Why or why not?
- How would you logically respond to this?
- How does this statement not contradict with Trans Women are Women
My answer: if we’re sat the point that you don’t even understand the definitions of sex, gender and sexuality I don’t think we have the time to discuss this. Ultimately, regardless of definitions, we should treat humans as humans and be kind to one another.
Why do I have to have an opinion? Why can’t we just let them be.
In general, please don’t ask loaded, third-rail questions on !asklemmy@lemmy.ml, because
- it’s a PITA for mods, and
- that’s not what the community is for:. It’s supposed to be a clone of r/askreddit.
Would ask to provide separate definitions for woman, man, male and female. We can’t jump to conclusions about someone’s statement before seeing the whole picture of what is happening in his mind.
It’s extremely
hairymessy to define biological sex. Whoever wants to argue has a middle school level understanding of biology, refuse to learn and completely ignores the science.See
It’s extremely hairy to define biological sex.
Doubly so after puberty.
It’s extremely hairy to define biological sex.
Ermm… What is that sentence dude?
In this context, “hairy” can mean “tricky” or “difficult”.
Fixed… -w-
They are genetically.
How they feel/identify is their problemshrug. I mean its true but so.
“You’re biologically a loser lmao”
Follow up question:
“And why does it have any importance for you the presence or not of some chromosomes, so you need to be so explicit about it?”
Depends on who’s saying it. For most people it’s just not worth saying anything. Anything you say goes in one ear and out the other
If they seem like they’re asking in good faith or I just want to practice my rhetoric, I’ll ask what they mean by “biologically male.” Chromosomally, maybe. Hormonally? Maybe not. Breast cancer doesn’t care about your chromosomes.
Yeah, biology is a fucking mess is the thing. I happen to be aware of a medical condition a woman can have where they literally have male chromosomes but completely female sexual characteristics.
I believe that this is some specific case of hermaphrodity you have described. I know cases when people can have undeveloped or even partially developed organs of other sex and don’t even know about them until a doctor finds it during a random body scan or surgery.
I wouldn’t engage in discussion with people saying that. Nothing good can come from it, and they probably aren’t people worth spending time with.
That’s true. But if they’re babbling about that to a number of people, they might be mislead into believing their bs. If I knew a proper response, I could call their bs out.
breaking their nose
Incorrect approach. This action would actually lower you intellectually over them. And will create 2 possible outcomes. A: person will start lawfully acting in self defense and will attack you back. B: person will call the police on you and for them only your aggressive actions will matter. Both are not good for you. More correct approaches would be to either ignore a person or engage in discussion.
Because this feels like a loaded statement, I’d respond like this: Biology makes mistakes. Biology is fallible. To frame this about biology is not sufficiently complex to address the issue.
- Talk to experts.
- The initial statement seems to me is that of a culture warrior, not a curious mind. Therefore it doesn’t matter to me.
- Compassion doesn’t require logic. But if you want sonething slightly logical: I don’t understand quantum physics either. I’m reliably informed it exists. Me being unable to grasp the uncertainty principle leaves me feeling uneasy and frustrated. Others may feel in a comparable way about gender identity. It’s okay to admit that you don’t get it. I don’t fully understand it either. It’s not okay to be an asshole about it.
- Apples to rotten pears.
There was a famous physicist. Maybe Einstein or Feynman who said to the effect “anyone who claims to understand quantum mechanics most certainly does not”
Are eunuchs biologically agender?
Are intersex people with chimerism or cryptorchidism biologically two genders at once?
Are women who have had hysterectomies biologically male?
The answer to all of the above is, and I say this with all the respect in the world, a resounding ‘no.’
They meant DNA not organs intact
there are many types of chromosomes outside of xy and xx. and they are about as common as being trans. shit, its fairly common for karyotype tests to come back with only an x for people past a certain age, a lot of people lose their second sex chromosome over time. this would make many people have an unverifiable ‘birth sex’ beyond just what is physically in their pants
even if i did have an xy chromosome (i dont even know if i do) being biologically male or female is nebulous. “biological men” dont have big feminine tits and estrogen in them for decades, but i do. so at minimum i am something not phenotypically or biologically male or female despite identifying as a trans woman
I was only explaining what they meant, not conjecture. There’s like 40+ DNA xy type variants…there’s an info graphic somewhere. Biology DNA would also be different than phenotype oresented.
DNA isn’t perfect either though. It’s possible to be AMAB with XX chromosomes and AFAB with XY chromosomes (both still having the “correct” fully functional organs for their assigned gender). Some intersex people can also have multiple sets of DNA, some being XX and some being XY.
Neatly fitting all cases of biology into 2 categories like that is basically impossible anyway regardless of how you do it. “Biologically male/female” is basically impossible to define without also excluding some people that were born into each category. They’re fundamentally useless terms that don’t actually convey anything meaningful…
There’s an info graphic somewhere with like 40+ variants and how they manifest
Thank you so much.
Biological sex (male, female, intersex) refers to the physical aspects of your body, such as primary sex characteristics (reproductive organs), secondary sex characteristics (body hair, breasts, fat distribution, etc), hormone levels (estrogen, testosterone), and chromosomes.
Gender (man, woman, nonbinary, other terms) is more about an internal sense of self, how you see yourself and how you want your body to be, as well as what social category you belong in.
A trans woman is a person who was biologically male at birth, but sees herself as a woman/wants her body to align with her gender (woman). Not all trans women medically transition, and that’s ok, but for those who do, it can change various aspects of their biological sex, such as hormone levels and secondary sex characteristics, so it may not be entirely true to say that trans women (post transition) are biologically male either.
This!
I was really scared to ask this question lol. But I needed to know. Thank you so much. That about sums it up.
